In the premier episode of Condo Artist: The Other Side of Real Estate, condo sales and marketing strategist Uri Vaknin takes listeners through a journey of rapid adaptation and flawless execution that resulted in continued condo sales and closings at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic in Las Vegas.
Uri, along with his colleagues and co-hosts Shahn Douglas and Mark Bunton, shares details of how they pivoted their marketing and sales strategies in a matter of days to pique interest and meet expectations of Las Vegas condo buyers. They also offer a glimpse into how the entire real estate market has pivoted, and how condos will be developed, marketed and sold in a post-COVID world.
Learn how Uri and his team:
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This episode is brought to you by Juhl Las Vegas, loft-style condos located in the heart of vibrant Downtown Las Vegas. Juhl offers a variety of floor plans and amazing amenities such as full-service concierge, resort pool and spa, wine deck, and co-op working space. Live the life you deserve at Juhl Las Vegas, condos from the low $200s to $1M. Learn more at JuhlLV.com.
Uri Vaknin 0:15
Welcome to the first episode of Condo Artist: The Other Side of Real Estate. I’m your host, Uri Vaknin, a condo sales strategist who has developed and sold out thousands of condos in Atlanta, Las Vegas, all over Florida, Detroit, Texas, Nashville, and literally all across United States. Each week I along with my co host and colleagues, Shahn Douglas. Hey, and Mark Bunton.
Mark Bunton 0:41
Uri Vaknin 0:42
We will bring you the latest insights, best practices and sales techniques to sell out more condos faster. No matter the market. This podcast will pull back the curtain on condominium sales. We truly understand the art and science of condo and residential sales, marketing and development. We will also have future guests and future episodes who can help illustrate the topics that we discuss. At times, we’ll even delve into architecture, design and urban planning as they pertain to condos and condo living. I’m an admitted podcast junkie. But in my search for podcasts about condos, we all realized Mark and Shahn, remember when we were doing this? Yeah, there really weren’t any out there. There were all these podcasts about real estate. But there weren’t podcasts that were focused on the art and science of selling marketing and developing condos. throughout this series, you will get to know more about me, Sean mark, and our 53 years of combined experience in the world of condos. Isn’t that your age, Mark? One of the things that has become glaringly obvious to us is that most people, including real estate agents, buyers, architects, and even the condo developers themselves, they don’t fully understand condos. So as we stated before, the purpose of this podcast is literally to pull back the curtain on the condo world. You know the old adage, the only two things in life that change our daily habits. And those are one having a baby and moving. Now some of us aren’t having babies. Shahn…
Shahn Douglas 2:38
Nope, not having any babies lately, mmmm
Uri Vaknin 2:41
No, but you’ve moved across the country a lot having to
Shahn Douglas 2:44
live so many times, always living in condos.
Uri Vaknin 2:47
Exactly. And when you do it, you change your daily habits, you do different things. And so what’s really interesting right now is COVID is that event that is causing us to change our daily habit, and universal event. This is not just localized to one area, it’s literally universal. With this, the title of our first podcast is the pivot. And we had not planned on focusing on COVID. But one of the things that we saw is that COVID has definitely changed our habits in real estate, how we sell real estate, how we buy real estate, and even how we think about real estate. And so that is the pivot we want to do is we want to go back to the beginning. And by the beginning, I mean EC what I call EC early COVID. And actually what’s called PC pre COVID. January, February were what Mark,
Mark Bunton 3:48
those are banner month of sales for us.
Uri Vaknin 3:51
It was it was incredible, like sales were just through the roof. We come out of a sluggish, you know, fall and winter. And it’s like January 2 sales just picked up. And we were so excited. Yeah, we were hearing about the pandemic, you know, everyone’s hearing about the pandemic. And we were expecting a great month of sales in March. But then I was invited to this high level meeting with the economic Club of Las Vegas to meet with the Chief Medical Director for the state of Nevada, along with folks who are very tuned into the economy and the conventions and the casinos in Las Vegas. That was Monday, March 2. At that meeting. It was the first time I ever heard the term, social distancing. Just think about that. The term that we use every day now, like started in the beginning of March,
Shahn Douglas 4:47
Mark Didn’t you make up that term?
Uri Vaknin 4:53
If you guys get to know Mark, you’ll realize he’s been social distancing his entire life at that meeting. They said, we’re gonna potentially start seeing conventions getting canceled. And that we even may have a NFL Draft, which was supposed to be the biggest event ever held in Las Vegas. be held without fans, I was in disbelief. After the meeting, I huddled with my team. And the three of us, Mark, Shahn and I, we all weathered the storm of the Great Recession together. Remember those fun days?
Shahn Douglas 5:33
Wow, I can’t believe we live through them.
Uri Vaknin 5:37
But we did, and we were successful. And we did what we needed to do to survive. And in some ways we have to thrive during the Great Recession, which we’ll talk about
Mark Bunton 5:46
in a later podcast. But we certainly learned a lot and became better people and real estate agents because of it.
Uri Vaknin 5:53
Yeah, you’re right. I mean, we came back at marketers, we understood, you know, what people wanted. It was it was a big lesson. But what was different about that was, that wasn’t caused by a pandemic that was actually caused by the housing market. So in many ways, that was an even harder thing to weather, but a pandemic, like, we didn’t know anything from a pandemic.
Mark Bunton 6:14
But at the same time, though, didn’t didn’t the Great Recession teach us to have to do our jobs differently, how to look at things differently, how to approach things differently in order to accommodate what was going on in the world at that time.
Uri Vaknin 6:30
You know, we it was no longer show pretty pictures and lifestyle photos and give your price points. No, not at all. We had to change our messaging, we had to come up with strategies. We did auctions, remember our VSP
Shahn Douglas 6:47
our velocity sales program,
Uri Vaknin 6:49
the velocity sales program, that is a whole episode in itself. But we digress, we need to continue to move on. We have so much ground to cover today. You know, this being our first podcast and all, you know, we ignored all the background noise, all this stuff, people calling it a hoax or whatever, whatever. We didn’t care. We knew from our experience together as a team that we needed to be prepared no matter what was going to happen. So that was March 2 by everything started, like on a hyper scale on a on a is so quickly, like things started falling into place. Everything that I heard at that meeting started to happen. A couple of days later, convention started canceling the NFL Draft started talking about how they were going to reorganize their whole event and so forth. And then March 17 was Las Vegas was shut down. But we were prepared. Because between that meeting, which was on March 2, and March 17, we got prepared. And we were not going to be caught with our pants down ever again. You already talked about what we did. Yes. So first thing we said is if people are not going to be able to travel potentially, or come into our sales centers, or do anything like that, we needed to virtually show them what we have. I get so excited. Sometimes I get carried away talk about what we do.
Mark Bunton 8:18
We have a portfolio of condominiums in Las Vegas that we sell. And each of our communities has an onsite sales center that is manned with
Uri Vaknin 8:28
some sales agents staffed actually can’t pay their manned
Mark Bunton 8:36
that are staffed with sales agents, and the majority of our marketing and outreach is to bring course buyers into the sales center, you know, with the city essentially shut down. That was dead in the water. We had absolutely zero visitors and plan to come into our sales centers. So how are we going to make sales?
Uri Vaknin 8:55
Yeah, because remember, what I said is we have to make sales no matter what, even through this because making sales are so important for maintaining that sense of normalcy, keeping what I call the sales Mojo going. And obviously, to keep the whole operation running, we needed to make sales. Were talking about what we did. I think this is where it gets really interesting. Shahn
Shahn Douglas 9:19
Yeah, well, I will say the first thing we did was we really we reached out to our database of prospects and our agents to let them know that we were going to go with a virtual office and virtual presentations. So we didn’t want to slow down sales. We knew we had to approach it differently. And that was through setting up private appointments and going into some of our tools that we already had in our arsenal of marketing, which included videos and some 3d virtual home presentations ever models,
Uri Vaknin 9:51
right but so between that March 2 meeting and march 17 What we did was for all of our available inventory, we had three video tours prepared. Even, we weren’t even sure people, we didn’t know what an essential worker was. That was a whole another new word. And so we created, we had great videos that we’ve already had. And then we also created all the 3d virtual. They’re called Mater ports. They were 3d virtual tours, that we have all of the homes. But interestingly, what is one of the words that we hate tour tour, you know, when, in a future episode, we’re going to talk about the lexicon of selling on site and selling condos. And we never believe in using the word tour, a tour ends in two things, going through the gift shop or getting back in the bus. For us. It’s always a presentation or sales presentation. But as we said, you know, this was a universal event that changed habits. And you know, I always have this firm belief is, while you want to agitate market, sometimes you can’t force a change on a market. So we wanted to use words that were comfortable. So we continue to use the word tour for these 3d virtual tours that we had set up. So we had the 3d virtual tour set up of all the available inventory. We had the videos that were already created, we enhanced them in some regards. Right, right. And then 316, March 16, you send out that first email blast to all the prospects and agents about how we were going to do virtual presentations. Because even before the lockdown on March 17, we chose to close our sales office centers to the public, we were going to be open by appointment only. But what we immediately did was we also created a very strong COVID policy. We did the best that we could at the time, but this brought up something really cool that you did, Shawn.
Shahn Douglas 11:50
Well, yeah, I mean, I think we realized we were gonna have to be safe, you know, and even though we didn’t realize that everything was gonna go on a quarantine, right? Everything would be shut down. So we, we got in touch with some of our partners, and we got hand sanitizers ordered immediately. And then eventually, we did masks as well. But
Uri Vaknin 12:12
what kind of hand sanitizer, what kind of masks were they,
Shahn Douglas 12:14
they were logoed, with our, you know, community specific logoed logos. So it was great, you know, we were still marketing, we’re still getting our, you know, brand out there to our prospects, even though I think that came into play a little bit later, because of like all he said, immediately, we went into quarantine. And we couldn’t really go into our offices, everybody was pretty much on lockdown. So it was,
Uri Vaknin 12:40
it was interesting, you know, so you were able to secure that was at a time when no one could get hand sanitizer. Remember that? Yeah, we
Shahn Douglas 12:49
had someone that we work with, it was great. It was just said, Hey, I have like 1000 left. So I was like, we’ll take it, you know, whatever the costs, we we knew we were kind of in this situation that we had to think fast, we couldn’t really decide whether it was a good thing or bad thing. But we knew this was this is something that no one else would probably be thinking of. So we did it.
Uri Vaknin 13:08
And then what we also did during the quarantine lockdown was we literally took the logoed hand sanitizers and sent them to our prospects to our agents. And as a way of saying, you know, we want you to be safe in this time. And it was also kept our property, you know, at the forefront of their mind, top of mind,
Shahn Douglas 13:30
I think we dial back on the sales aspect a little bit, I think in you know, in the beginning, we were sensitive, because, you know, we didn’t want to be looked at as someone that didn’t have any heart and there are people, you know, dying. And so we still want it to be relative and keep our name out there. But we we did it from a very caring point of view, and it wasn’t pushing the sales price or the incentives right away. It was more about you know, caring about our prospects and our agents. And that even went into our messaging on some of our social media marketing, we dial back on on our ads that had pricing. And we came up with some great slogans like, love where you live, and your home is your sanctuary. So you know, along with our hashtags of stay on front of data and flatten the curve. And so for quite some time, that was the message that we put out there.
Uri Vaknin 14:29
What was interesting was so like, right at the beginning of quarantine, and where everyone was like looking to so you know, one of the to back up is our social media ads have been great for us. Facebook ads have really served us well really seen incredible conversion from people clicking on our Facebook ads historically, then going to the website and then contacting our agents or agents responding and then making appointments for them to literally come in. But we knew at this point at this time, social media was it way that people were really getting information connecting with their friends, as it’s very scary and uncertain time in American and world history. And so we did not want to be additional clutter. So we made the decision for a week or so, to really just pull back all of our ads.
Shahn Douglas 15:19
Uri Vaknin 15:21
yeah. But then, you know, what we realized is, we were getting people saying, I wanna, I’ve got nothing to do, I want to learn about your properties. And so we turned back on the edge with those incredible slogans that you came up with love where you live, and your home is your sanctuary. Because that’s what we were hearing from people like they now want you to like you know, they want you to feel that their home was a safe space for them.
Shahn Douglas 15:52
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Uri Vaknin 16:44
Shawn, you tell us a little bit more about what we did like how we got the word out?
Shahn Douglas 16:48
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Mark Bunton 16:51
One of the important things that all these things that we’re talking about are great. But something that we really haven’t talked about is our sales centers were closed. And we, you know, overnight, had to change from from going into sales meetings every week, being in sales centers, every day, supporting our agents and working with them to zoom meetings, you know, everything instantly changed. And we all had to, you know, become familiar with that get up and running with our meetings, get our agents up and running with the meetings, not Not only that, but working in a completely different way for everybody. And looking back on it. And it was successful. We did a great job. But there were some growing pains.
Uri Vaknin 17:32
Now they’re definitely Yeah, this is this is the pivot. I mean, this isn’t the full pivot, but it was the pivot of how we had to work. And you’re right, there definitely were growing pains because the agents were they weren’t, they were used to dealing with people in person. And one of the things that we became really known for in this market is at our properties we had, we had a whole thing called lifestyle events, and we had a lifestyle director, and her entire life was focused on creating social events and gatherings. And what do you do in a time, when you can’t gather and social events aren’t allowed?
Shahn Douglas 18:13
Well, I’m gonna, you know, toot your horn for a minute already, because you immediately were like, you know, we have residents on site, we want our residents to be safe, we’ve got to keep them engaged, we have to keep them, you know, mentally positive, because this was a tragic event that was happening and people were just, you know, alone. So how do we keep these people that are, you know, maybe older and living alone, engaged. So you know, immediately we went and did some really great programs for our lifestyle, like one of them was called step up to social distancing. So you can’t really do much, but you can go take a walk. So we had a program for several weeks, where we gave out, you know, a gift certificate to the resident that had the most steps for that week. And it was very well received. And looking back, all the residents appreciated the fact that we immediately came out of the gate with these things. And it was words with neighbors, you know, we had to be very creative to think of things that we could do to keep even our residents happy and mentally healthy.
Uri Vaknin 19:26
And remember, we also had to close our pool, and our gyms, which is like anathema to the entire Las Vegas experience. And people were furious. You know, residents were like, they didn’t understand it, but it was it was a governor’s order that we had to do that. So one of the things that we did do, which was also really cool, was we got virtual Personal Training, where through zoom, people can sign up and we had a personal trainer, who literally did personal training through zoom for people in their homes, which was really awesome. And so doing it to this day.
Shahn Douglas 20:00
Yeah, great. But I mean back to you know what happened with our lifestyle director, eventually, you know, we were able to reengage that person to help with weekly newsletters who went on to do events, like via zoom, like Mark had said, and a lot of them were arts and crafts and things. But it was just a very collaborative effort to keep some of the things that people were used to going, even if it was in a different format, you
Mark Bunton 20:31
know, just to combat the isolation, right came with all of this.
Uri Vaknin 20:36
Yeah, my favorite, one of my favorite things that we did was to crafts in a box, where we sent people if people registered, and then we had left for them at the concierge desk, a box that was a whole craft box, and through zoom, they did a craft project together. And people love doing that. And we posted stuff like that on social media. And it really helped create, you know, a sense of alone together is the hashtag. And we also wanted to really help people feel good about their home being their sanctuary, we were very fortunate with our buildings that all of our buildings have balconies, right. And many of them have floor to ceiling windows. And there was this whole kind of backlash against people living in, you know, multifamily, residential, and people wanting to live out, you know, out in the country, and so forth. But people really loved, you know, living in our buildings, because they had amazing views from their homes. And they had great balconies. And then we saw that episode on CBS Sunday morning, where they talked about the balconies during COVID. And that triggered an idea in all of us, Shawn, remember that?
Shahn Douglas 21:48
Yeah, no, it was kind of just very topical. And it was amazing that we were already you know, doing some things because we did have like five o’clock, go out on the balcony and have a toast with your neighbors. So we were already kind of incorporating that into the quote unquote, lifestyle activities at that time.
Uri Vaknin 22:05
But then we also did an E blast. Remember that?
Shahn Douglas 22:08
Yeah, with that came a little bit later. But yes, we did.
Uri Vaknin 22:11
Talk about the last I love that. To this day, still one of my favorite things we’ve ever done.
Shahn Douglas 22:16
It was it actually was amazing how it resonated with a lot of our, you know, buyers and agents. But we did do an E blast on on this spacious balconies and terraces that we offer at the properties that were selling. And we included a clip from the CBS morning show to illustrate how you know, this is just this is just how it is right now. So it just, again reinforced the livability of our condos, and I think it resonated with a lot of people.
Uri Vaknin 22:50
Yeah, no, I think people absolutely loved it. And, and people said to me, personally, you know, if it wasn’t for my great balcony, my great view, I don’t know how I would have made it through COVID. And so I would, you know, developer hat on now is what I’m saying is, I will never do a condo development or a multi family residential project that does not have balconies, it’s just I don’t think they would work very well in today’s world anymore. So I think you have to have a balcony, you have to be able to open up a window. And thank God, you know, we’re very fortunate that all of our buildings have both of those, which has been really great. But you have this, this was not a piece of cake. You know, I don’t want our listeners to think that this was all so easy. Overnight, we changed to zoom, which we did do, you know, for our meetings, we went virtual, we did all that stuff. But it was hard. It was really hard. It was hard for buyers to because, you know, there Oh, the market was so hot in January in February and the beginning of March. And we knew that there were buyers out there. And one of the things that we said, because everyone is asking us what can happen on the other side of this. And not that we know what the other side of this is or when that is it. But I said we all talked about it is that people were really going to, they’ve spent so much time in their homes, that now they know how they really want to live. And there was going to be you know, and there had been all these buyers in the pipeline until COVID started that once the lockdown the quarantine was, you know, essentially over that everyone was going to come out of the woodwork. And they have and that true that proved to be a true, you know, impression precedent statement that we made, which was really exciting. But we knew that we wanted to continue to make sales. And one of the things that I always like to say and I think we got this during the Great Recession is extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. And so one of the things that we did do during you know, the lockdown was we went to to continue making those sales for all those reasons that I mentioned before. So what we did was we offered really incredible incentives for buyers who are still willing to buy during the lockdown. And guess what? It worked, we made sales. Obviously, it wasn’t the sales like we made in January, February, the beginning of March. But we continue to make sales through COVID. And we continued to close real estate during COVID, which was really important to be able to do. So that was really kind of exciting. And admittedly, yes, some people got some great deals during COVID, which is awesome. And they should have, you know, they were willing to take a chance. And in some cases, what we had to do was, we had to write contracts, because we did such a great job with the, you know, the virtual stuff that they, they got excited about it. And some people already knew occasion or had been to the building previously, or whatever it may be. But we wrote contracts that are contingent upon them viewing it. And so they got these incredible incentives. But then we allow them to write these contracts. But that brings us to our next thing. And this is where it all really kind of came together, where the zoom open houses, Shahn, take it away.
Shahn Douglas 26:15
Well, back to Mark’s point, you know, we’ve already been having the zoom calls. So we knew this was kind of the way that things were going to be done business was going to be done every zoom. So you know, I think I sat in on a presentation done by another real estate company in another market, which was really interesting to do. And it was, you know, a huge group of people that came on for the presentation. But it you know, it was, again, I’m sure it was the first time they had done it. And it was great to be able to experience the things that worked and the things that didn’t work. But what we did is we took that back to our agents and said, You know, this is what’s happening out there, you have got to use your 3d virtual presentations, your videos, your images, your sales, inserts, all of your tools, and do these live open houses, to our agents and our prospects? So we started scheduling those, and we’re still doing them to this day,
Uri Vaknin 27:15
we always talk a little bit about I mean, it sounds so easy, but it wasn’t really easy.
Shahn Douglas 27:20
Agents initially were so gun shy, they did not want to even attempt it. But you know, after some practice sessions, and Hey, Mark, what are you waiting for with practice sessions?
Mark Bunton 27:31
I wasn’t allowed
to be involved.
Uri Vaknin 27:38
I think the agent for afraid of your very biting critiques that may have come forth.
Shahn Douglas 27:47
Things we did, or he was we, you know, whether we need to do or not, but we incentivize people to come to check it out was it was a gift card. Now, you know, I’m sure not everybody needs the $25 amazon gift card. But if we’re going to have an event for agents or even for prospects, we would add a gift bag would add some drawings. So you know, that’s just kind of what we do. So that was well received as well. But it was amazing how many people started showing up to orders point people that came out of the woodwork.
Uri Vaknin 28:17
I was really interesting. What so this is where we knew something was changing. So we’ve been selling condos in Las Vegas since 2014. Oh my gosh. So our viewers or listeners understand is we had a portfolio with 1300 condos, and five different condominium buildings, all different types of condos all over town, when we started this project in Las Vegas. So we’ve had people registered on our website, literally for years. They wouldn’t respond to emails, phone calls, they would sign up on the website, they would register with their phone numbers with their emails, but our agents would reach out to them no response whatsoever. None. And then we started seeing these people who’ve been registered on our websites, they would sign on for the zoom open houses. And it was really fascinating. So we were like, Wow, what’s going on here. And then we would see they would go from the zoom open houses to scheduling a one on one zoom presentation or FaceTime presentation with our agents individually. And these people who for months or years or whatever it was, wouldn’t respond to anything. We’re now not only attending these zoom calls, we’re now being responsive. And what we realized was that you know, the number they take the number one emotion that anyone feels when they walk into a sales center, whether it’s, you know, a new home sales center, particularly a condo sales center, I think is fear. They fear that they’re Gonna be sold to, they fear that they’re actually going to buy something. And this ability to be anonymous on these zoom open houses was something new for them, it was a way for them to find out and literally see, and somewhat experienced the property without having to directly come into the sales center, or to even speak to someone, it was a great
Mark Bunton 30:25
leveler. But everybody on an even playing field,
Uri Vaknin 30:28
it did. And at that moment, is when I call, but this whole podcast is about the big pivot, or the pivot, as we just call it right? You know, it was a pivot in how people are going to buy or are buying real estate now. And so yes, we pivoted the way we sold, sell real estate, we pivoted with doing things I zoom, and the open houses and the 3d virtual tours. And that’s all great. And all of our pivots in the world don’t matter if it doesn’t work. But it did work. And not only did it work, it almost worked better than the old school way of selling real estate. And so now, they say that 92% of all people, just pre COVID pC 92% of all people who are buying real estate, start their real estate search online, I would actually argue that that percentage is is more and probably now post this, it’s COVID. It is it’s it’s much more than that. But now looks after they just start their search online, they expect to do most of their search online. And their visit to the property is more of an affirmation of their purchase, or to select between different texts you feel in touch and feel is what I say, you know, the different homes and floor plans and condos, and so forth. And so this is was this big aha moment for us. And actually really kind of cool, because no longer are people going to say, oh, drive me around. Obviously, there can be some people who are going to, but most people now want to do most of the work up front online. And Is that good or bad for real estate? I would argue that it’s actually really good. Because we get to be more efficient with our time. It does mean we have to be more tech savvy, though, right. And we have to make sure that our messaging is right, and that our images are good, and that someone properly flushed the model before, you know, photos were taken and the 3d tour was done. So that was really kind of cool. That’s where we really see the pivot happen. You know, when we talked about, you know how there. Historically, there have been two events in people’s lives that change our daily habits. Well, COVID, in this case, is showing how it’s how we change our habits, and how we not just sell real estate, but how we buy real estate and how we think about real estate, which the thinking about real estate is something we’ll cover in a future episode.
Shahn Douglas 33:12
Well, I think, you know, to your point, one of the things that took away was the fear, like you said, the fear of coming in to the sales office and, and the fear of being sold to. It’s been amazing to see how many people I mean, we’ve had, you know, I think one of our largest turnouts was over 7070 people,
Uri Vaknin 33:29
like how many people we get to an open house in person, you know, pre COVID
Shahn Douglas 33:34
Well, I mean, we’ve had some we’ve had some successful open houses, live in person too. But, you know, it was different, you know, different strategy. But this has been an amazing, you know, strategy to, for us to, for it to work for us. And I’m very proud that, you know, this is something that we’ve been able to master
Uri Vaknin 33:56
well, and now we continue to do it, you know, I mean, because basically people still are reluctant to travel, understandably reluctant to go into, you know, unfamiliar places or new places. So, zoom open houses continue. Our team has gotten great with it. They really know how to do it. We have two agents who are doing the one or two agents doing the presentation. And then we have our sales director is answering questions that people are asking during the presentation. So we’ve really gotten it down to a beautiful art and science. But I have to tell you, so what felt really good was the media attention that we received for how we pivoted and my favorite you know that we were in local news and we got a couple early media reports on my favorite story was on Monday, August 3, when the Las Vegas sun that’ll put us like on the cover and the the article was called Southern Nevada real estate pros reinvent the way they do business during pen demmick I think it’s just a during the pandemic, but their titles during pandemic. So that felt really good. It’s people identify that what we’ve done. And yes, we did pivot, but the big pivot is really in how people are buying real estate and how they will buy it in the future. With that, what we want to do is say thank you very much for tuning in to the first episode of condo artist, the other side of real estate, along with my co host, Mark Bunton. See you next time, and Shahn Douglas. Until then, we will be back with Episode Two shortly. If you have any questions seriously, or if you’d like to just get in touch with us, please email us at email@example.com. That’s all one word firstname.lastname@example.org until next time, and we’ll pull back that curtain a little bit more on the condo world. Thank you